Digital (CAT) over USB unstable, trusdx' driver resets rig repeatedly

[Neitron4ik]

Does someone has successful experience with Digital mode over USB (without audio cables)? As Manuel explained in his video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PydB0b37Ibo.

Time to time I has unstable work of this mode, when (tr)uSDX driver (https://github.com/threeme3/trusdx-audio) start to reset rig repeatedly. See screenshot:

CAT over USB unstable

ft8_cat_usb_issues.jpg (235.99 KiB) Viewed 3114 times

After several such issues, some error popups:

CAT over USB error

ft8_cat_usb_issues1.jpg (42.93 KiB) Viewed 3114 times

Tried last two beta versions 2.00u and 2.00v, same issue for both.

I am using with 12V external power supply(tried with battery pack - the same), Lenovo (win10) laptop direct USB to microUSB short cable.

UT4WVA, Viktor, 73

[Nehem11e]

Is it more stable when you don’t use external power or battery park? Meaning if you only allow power through the micro usb is it more stable?

[Neitron4ik]

I tried yesterday similar config, but with audio cables - it was working stable several hours.
With external power.

Is it more stable when you don’t use external power or battery park? Meaning if you only allow power through the micro usb is it more stable?

Also fails, as I tried in a past. I will try to debug this idea in detail.

[Neitron4ik]

Today started with FT8 for 2 hours, just listening on USB power, without external 12V. -> OK
Made few CQ contact with USB power -> OK
Connected external 12V supply, after few transmits, got same bug. -> NOK!
Disconnected 12V, tried to reset rig, no success, tried to reconnect usb, no success. Still fails even without external supply. Tried to restart trUSDX driver + reset rig and usb, after many trials, rig start works FT8 over USB again. Seems trUSDX driver start to work unstable, after catch this bug.

Conclusion: Seems transmitting with external power gives this bug. Maybe some RF interference during transmitting at higher RF power...

[dl6sez]

Hello OM Viktor,

also think about a ground difference problem due to your USB power and 12V power, mostly happens ground differences from switching power supplies.
Buy a USB isolator (8 to 12 Euros) could help in this case.
Stray RF, common currents on rf coax can also cause your (tr)uSDX symptoms

73 de Chris

[YO5CSA]

Hi,

I'm experiencing approximately the same issue. I cannot manage to connect the (tr)uSDX to the computer in the new (w/o audio cable) USB mode.
I have two transceivers (one as "classic", one as "lo", both "originals" bought from Suny), and both of them behaves in the same manor as you described.
I tried also the external power (only on battery) and USB power version, neither with success.

And, of course, knowing that there is Manuel's tutorial and it seems to work... Well, is frustrating.
So, if you find some workaround for this problem, please post.

tnx, 73 de YO5AC (ex YO5CSA).

[Neitron4ik]

Hi YO5CSA,
thanks for confirming that you also see this issue.
In my case, issue still open. No time to dig it deeper, just using normal audio cables for FT8 operations.

Yes in Manuel's video it works, in my case it also works some time. But time to time is unstable.
Maybe somebody can report stable work in this mode for many hours?

[Neitron4ik]

Today tried again TruSDX FT8 over USB at 40M.
More than 1 hours was working fine, then got several errors.
Reset rig helps for a while, then finally, it was stuck continuously, and I stopped work.
I was working with external battery.

FT8 over USB issue

trusdx1--.png (207.07 KiB) Viewed 1614 times

FT8 over USB issue

trusdx2--.png (191.04 KiB) Viewed 1614 times

[Neitron4ik]

In my case, I plan to use only standard configuration: USB for CAT control + Audio cables. This approach is stable and reliable.
CAT + Audio, through one USB cable, for my case, is unstable, and I can loose QSOs during FT8 work.

[dl6sez]

Hello OM,

my solution for this problem:
Do right QSOs learn Morse Code and do CW QSOs
FT8 is not a little bit of a real communication between people, any computer can do it in auto mode....

73 de Chris

P.S.: Do you really think an FT8 DXCC is a target for a Ham, no it's only a thing to laugh about!

[KG7YSX]

I am experiencing this but I assumed it was RFI. I ordered a more robust micro USB data cable with ferrites to see if it resolves.

[dl6sez]

Hello OM

use a known good RFI blocker, for example an FT140-43 or little bit smaller and wound your antenna cable around a few times... It's here a common mode problem on your antenna coax!
The ferrite bead on these cables we can buy are only lousy and help only to reduce very high frequencies above 50Mhz and will not reduce SW RFI.

73 de Chris

[KG7YSX]

I'm stumped. Initially I could run winlink via usb-only without issue, but after a day the driver became unstable and unusable as described above. I also have not been able to get USB-only to work with JS8 yet (choppy non-decodable audio). I've added ferrites to antenna and USB cable. Moved away from possible RFI sources. Deleted and reloaded everything. Tried a second computer. Watched all the videos on the subject and tried many different software configurations. Still no use.

I see a comment above that the old configuration using an audio interface is stable. I am going to order a digirig and audio cables, and give that a try. I really hope I can make this work!

[KG7YSX]

***SOLUTION***

Re-flashing the firmware like 5 times in a row with avrdudess per the instructions at https://dl2man.de/3b-trusdx-firmware/ seems to have solved the problem, at least for now. The driver is now behaving stable.

I don't know if it will last, since it was seemingly stable the first day I set it up, before degrading in reliability for no clear reason. I will post again if things fall apart.

Update: I may have posted too soon. Still having mixed results. It's not quite as bad as before, but I'm still glad I ordered the digirig.

Update: adding more ferrites and routing the power cable away from the micro USB cable seems to be helping.

[KG7YSX]

Has anyone tried inserting a USB Isolator in between the computer and transceiver, such as this one sold by Denis at Digirig?

https://digirig.net/product/usb-isolator/

I am going to order one to see if it enhances driver stability. I'm still seeing fair stability with the single micro USB cable connection (the driver quits for a few seconds occasionally while using Winlink before rebooting), but I think at this point I'm going to consider the single micro USB setup as a backup to a full setup with an external sound card and audio cables.

[KG7YSX]

Hello OM Viktor,

also think about a ground difference problem due to your USB power and 12V power, mostly happens ground differences from switching power supplies.
Buy a USB isolator (8 to 12 Euros) could help in this case.
Stray RF, common currents on rf coax can also cause your (tr)uSDX symptoms

73 de Chris

I just saw this. I have a USB Isolator arriving on Monday. I hope it does the trick!

[KG7YSX]

In my case, I plan to use only standard configuration: USB for CAT control + Audio cables. This approach is stable and reliable.
CAT + Audio, through one USB cable, for my case, is unstable, and I can loose QSOs during FT8 work.

I tried this, and for whatever reason my trusdx puts out a ton of QRM when used with a digirig. I'm continuing the effort of RF mitigation because that's the only thing I can think of that would cause all these problems, unless I simply have a faulty unit.

[KG7YSX]

Update:

I have attempted covering an entire micro USB cable with ferrites. I created a dirty choke with a mix 31 ferrite which I have dubbed "the RF Mutilator", and I have attempted threatening my TruSDX with violence. Still no luck resolving the unstable driver issue. Troubleshooting continues.

[KG7YSX]

USB Isolator + RF Mutilator choke + data cable covered in ferrites + spacing components apart + other RF mitigation efforts + threatening the transceiver did not resolve the problem. External sound card configuration did not solve the problem. Using a different computer and data cables didn't improve the driver stability either. I'm all out of ideas. I'm going to request an exchange from the Malahit seller on Amazon. Perhaps I just received a faulty unit.

[juraj]

I have had similar issue after burn out of ftd86256. In linux the trx does not reset frequently, but in windows it was each 5-10 sec. With apply additional 12v it becomes stable, but it was not working well.

I have replace fdt86256 second time with component from different vendor. The usb interface become responsive and wad.

In my case, I was not able to run any python commands using cat interface to get frequency or set new one.

I hope it helps.

Wish you luck Juraj

[dl6sez]

Hello Juraj,

The FDT86256 was maybe not a real original FDT86256 and did anything not good, e.g. distortion and harmonics resulting in stray rf in your (tr)uSDX.
It can also happen that a well known supplier sometimes gets not original components.
Everything is possible since chinese seller sell wrong labeled or bad copied devices.
This wasn't so 10 years ago, but things have changed and worsened in the last decade there.

73 de Chris

[DL2MAN]

(...)I have attempted threatening my TruSDX with violence. Still no luck resolving the unstable driver issue. (...)

I love your visualisation of that. From this perspective I cannot tell wether it´s a 686 or a 629.....and I love you americans for this humor, that would create a shitstorm in germany.
But think about rule Nr. 3: "Never point your gun at anything you don’t intend to shoot."
Maybe it felt, you were not intending to shoot it, because you love it so much ?

But thanks to you we know now, that threatening it with violence did not help....
But wait: What if it was not (tr)uSDX fault ? What if it was on PC side ? Did you threaten your PC also with violence ?

But sorry, besides that, I have no Idea how to help. This is why we didn´t want to support it. There are too many variables involved.
I wish you honest good luck ! You made my day !

73 Manuel; DL2MAN

[KG7YSX]

I have had similar issue after burn out of ftd86256. In linux the trx does not reset frequently, but in windows it was each 5-10 sec. With apply additional 12v it becomes stable, but it was not working well.

I have replace fdt86256 second time with component from different vendor. The usb interface become responsive and wad.

In my case, I was not able to run any python commands using cat interface to get frequency or set new one.

I hope it helps.

Wish you luck Juraj

Will you please teach me more about this in detail? Does this require soldering in different components?

[KG7YSX]

(...)I have attempted threatening my TruSDX with violence. Still no luck resolving the unstable driver issue. (...)

I love your visualisation of that. From this perspective I cannot tell wether it´s a 686 or a 629.....and I love you americans for this humor, that would create a shitstorm in germany.
But think about rule Nr. 3: "Never point your gun at anything you don’t intend to shoot."
Maybe it felt, you were not intending to shoot it, because you love it so much ?

But thanks to you we know now, that threatening it with violence did not help....
But wait: What if it was not (tr)uSDX fault ? What if it was on PC side ? Did you threaten your PC also with violence ?

But sorry, besides that, I have no Idea how to help. This is why we didn´t want to support it. There are too many variables involved.
I wish you honest good luck ! You made my day !

73 Manuel; DL2MAN

I totally understand, and appreciate your time that you've put into creating and refining the TruSDX. Even if I can't get it to work 100% on digital, I'll still consider it a useful device.

I ruled out the PC and location too. But, I think I wouldn't mind shooting my computer sometimes...

[KG7YSX]

I observed the same issue in this youtube video at 11:45 and 13:13:

https://youtu.be/2RHfv8xpqlE

I feel better now knowing that the problem is a common one, and not simply limited to a few devices. I completely understand that Manuel's workload is high, and that the usb-only interface is not currently being supported. I think for now I'll just do my best with a Digirig interface, considering the usb-only interface as a backup if the Digirig fails. I still think this is a great little radio, and I'm excited to see where it goes in the future!