(tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

John
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by John »

An excellent start Manuel. Thank you. I tuned up 20 meters using 1 yellow core (mix 6,) substituted in instead of the red one, (mix 2,) and it took me 3 hours to get it right. With 13.8 Volts I was getting over 86% efficiency as calculated by the rig. Now I'll try a yellow core for the other toroid. I'm sure it will be the same sort of time-frame to get the band optimized to see what efficiency I can squeeze out of it. Then I'll check the output with a scope to double check the rig's internal calculations. All in all, it really eats up your time, so I understand the effort involved in designing these class E outputs. Let others with more time on their hands do the work. It requires patience and tenacity more than any degree of skill or genius, so a lot of us can do that sort of work. You can do the creative stuff.
DL2MAN
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by DL2MAN »

Great to hear John, you succeeded with 20m.
Please don´t forget to share your component values here, so others can comprehend.

73 Manuel; DL2MAN
Ohwenzelph
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by Ohwenzelph »

How do you like the FDT86256 compared with 3 BS170's?
VA7RGM
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by VA7RGM »

I have a NanoVnaH4. Can I test each of the inductors at the appropriate frequency before installing.

I have already "calculated" the inductance values using an online calculator but, If possible, the actual "out of circuit" values for each inductor (original board) would be helpful.

My thought is that this might give me confidence that the inductors are wound correctly prior to installing.

Thank you
Bob
VA7RGM
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ve2rn
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by ve2rn »

I did the same setup for 15M on one board from *Rxxxx* and one form aliexpress replacing 30M
and using classic lpf
Here is what i used for 15M rf boards on 15M all caps from that same board
C20/21 100P
C22/23 330p
C24/25 330p
C26/C27 100P
C28/C29 330P
L21 T37-6 9T 0.4mm
L22 T37-6 6T 0.4mm
Results with 12V : 3.2W 46% *Rxxxx* kit
Results with 12V : 3.90W 71.85% Aliexpress kit (all other freq are at more than 80%)
Maby this can help you
Sylvain Naud
VE2RN
Ohwenzelph
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by Ohwenzelph »

John, what values worked for you with 20? I cannot get 5 watts and efficiency over 70%.
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ve2rn
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by ve2rn »

Ohwenzelph wrote: 04 Apr 2022, 12:08 John, what values worked for you with 20? I cannot get 5 watts and efficiency over 70%.
I used all the default values for 80-60-40-20 - only change the 30M- for using it i switch lpf value to classic
Sylvain Naud
VE2RN
Ohwenzelph
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by Ohwenzelph »

Is "default" per the IBOM and "classic" per the "theoretical" list?
Tried one of my scopes and on 14 thru 28 MHz it cannot produce any thing close to traces with the detail needed to use the tunning tips in the QEX article. John looks like he has had better success with 20 than either of us, so it would be nice to know all the values that worked for him.
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ve2rn
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by ve2rn »

Ohwenzelph wrote: 04 Apr 2022, 12:43 Is "default" per the IBOM and "classic" per the "theoretical" list?
Tried one of my scopes and on 14 thru 28 MHz it cannot produce any thing close to traces with the detail needed to use the tunning tips in the QEX article. John looks like he has had better success with 20 than either of us, so it would be nice to know all the values that worked for him.
Default per IBOM for LO bands - 15M is my version. 20 meter work fine for everybody with the default values check your soldering on L11 and L12 if needed take them out ,clean make sure you have the good number of turns and no varnish at all and resolder. If it not working and all the others bands are ok condenser need to be checked.
Sylvain Naud
VE2RN
Ohwenzelph
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by Ohwenzelph »

I think efficiency is important for stuff to stay cool and keep working, I don't have 86% on 20, do you? John says he does and I would love to know how to get there.
9A5MPV
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by 9A5MPV »

Hi,

is components list for 'Classic' config set or is still in working version ?

73 Vlado
Faraaz VK4JJ
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by Faraaz VK4JJ »

9A5MPV wrote: 08 Apr 2022, 17:49 Hi,

is components list for 'Classic' config set or is still in working version ?

73 Vlado
No, they are not set. They require a group effort to work out the correct inductor/capacitor values.
JR1KDA
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by JR1KDA »

When I chose "8.7 LPF Config" to Classic, But I can see the all band(10m, 12m, 15m, 17m, 20m, 30m, 40m, 60m, 80m) in "1.4 Band" menu.
My firmware version is 2.00h. What is wrong?

73 JR1KDA / Sho
fiveangle
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by fiveangle »

DL2MAN wrote: 16 Mar 2022, 21:29 Hi,
a Kit usually comes with pre-installed capacitors.
They are set-up for "Lo", as this is current standard.
If you just leave out 60 and 30m, (K2 and K4) then they are
a) on the wrong spot and
b) all the capacitors are on the wrong spot.
Would a FW that swapped the K2 and K4 bands like:
K2 "Lo" 30M => 10M
K4 "Lo" 60M => 15M
...allow us to replace only the components necessary to enable them but still allow the 20, 40, and 80 meter bands to remain in their pre-populated working PCB values that you put so much effort into figuring out, resulting in K1-5 being 20, 10, 40, 15, 80 meter bands, respectively, and easily built from the "Lo" kits we have access to ?

Thanks,

-=dave - AI4ME
DL2MAN
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by DL2MAN »

fiveangle wrote: 13 Apr 2022, 06:38
Would a FW that swapped the K2 and K4 bands like:
K2 "Lo" 30M => 10M
K4 "Lo" 60M => 15M
...allow us to replace only the components necessary to enable them but still allow the 20, 40, and 80 meter bands to remain in their pre-populated working PCB values that you put so much effort into figuring out, resulting in K1-5 being 20, 10, 40, 15, 80 meter bands, respectively, and easily built from the "Lo" kits we have access to ?

Thanks,

-=dave - AI4ME
I´ve heard this request with different Bands (as fillers for the unwanted Bands) on the wishlist, and that´s the crux. User wishes are way too different.
We will not create and support 10 different Versions.
Remember: The (tr)uSDX is supposed to be some kind of standard setup.

This is why we gave 3 Options
80/60/40/30/20 (Lo)
20/17/15/12/10 (Hi)
80/40/20/15/10 (Classical Shortwave - no WARC)
that cover 99% of Users.
Sorry for the Rest.

Your Request would be Hi, but in different Order.
Either unsolder the Coils and Caps and bring them in the right order, or simply leave the Board alone and buy / build another Bord to Swap between Hi and Lo.

73 Manuel; DL2MAN
SP9TKW
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by SP9TKW »

JR1KDA wrote: 12 Apr 2022, 09:45 When I chose "8.7 LPF Config" to Classic, But I can see the all band(10m, 12m, 15m, 17m, 20m, 30m, 40m, 60m, 80m) in "1.4 Band" menu.
My firmware version is 2.00h. What is wrong?

73 JR1KDA / Sho
I have the same options in Menu 1.4 Band, but pressing twice encoder moves along in the right band sequence ie. 80/40/20/15/10.

Not sure what would happen if you select 30m band from menu but you have classic LPF setting.

I think it might be on the to do list for next f/w update.

73 Marek
W6LKB
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by W6LKB »

I modified my build to use the classic bands and noticed that all the bands are selectable although I can hear the relays switching every other band. I haven't gotten very good results with 10 and 15 meters using the suggested values. Both are about 1 watt with 40 % efficiency. Out of curiosity I measured output on 12 and 17 meters and they are both getting 3 watts and 60 % efficiency. I'm guessing I'll need more C and less Inductance to optimize 10 and 15 Meyers. But as all have indicated this takes a great deal of trial and error time.
Murphyv310
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by Murphyv310 »

Hi.
Now being an extremely happy (tr)uSDX owner I am definitely interested in the higher bands, or even just the classic version (10, 15, 20, 40, 80) which are the bands I am more interested in using.
Id be happy to purchase a kit for a self build but at my age eyesight is a definite issue and soldering in caps then removing them for experiments is for me a hard task, I think I'd prefer that the groundwork would be complete before I purchase a kit.
One question though is if I did purchase a kit from the existing set up would it be a simple enough job to convert to the classic bands. I'd probably not construct it till the required groundwork and component values etc are finalised?
Regards, Trevor. 2M0GZQ
DL2MAN
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by DL2MAN »

Here are my preliminary Results with "Classic Bands" Setup, using the FDT86256 FET:
(Do right click on the Picture below and open in new tab - for better readability)
EDIT: UPDATED later in this Thread !!!! but left here to see History
viewtopic.php?p=3256#p3256
86256_Classic.JPG
86256_Classic.JPG (87.23 KiB) Viewed 1948 times
As you can see, we´re dropping below 80% Efficiency @15 and 10m, but I could not get out more.
Alternative could be using Yellow Toroids on those higher Band to try to increase Efficiency.

But the Values as shown work and will get you there probably way faster than me.
I was using the Toroids and PCB provided by Sunny.

Maybe it would be an opportunity to you experienced builders, to make use of the Surplus *Rxxxx* Kits, if you´re going to re-populate the RF Board anyway. Maybe they will offer a clearance sale at some point.

73 Manuel; DL2MAN
wa2t
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by wa2t »

Hi Group,

Here are my values and results for Classic Band Setup I have done on one of my units:

15m

CX0//CX1 68 pF//-
CX2//CX3 300pF//15pF
LX1 8T on T37-6
CX4//CX5 300pF//-
CX8//CX9 300pF//-
LX2 6T on T37-6
CX6/CX7 100pF

10m

CX0//CX1 39 pF//-
CX2//CX3 240pF//-
LX1 6T on T37-6
CX4//CX5 240pF//-
CX8//CX9 240pF//-
LX2 5T on T37-6
CX6/CX7 75pF

Note that my capacitor values are adhering fairly closely to (and are unchanged from) the BS170 theoretical values Manuel provided.

For the inductors, I used my Nano VNA to measure inductance and adjusted turns count to get as close as possible to the BS170 theoretical values Manuel provided. I then adjusted turns from there (which was always less turns) following the concepts demonstrated in Manuel's tuning video.

Results (@13.8Vdc & LP-100A used for Pout Measurement)

80m 5.6W
40m 5.8W
20m 5.7W
15m 5.2W
10m 4.6W

On 80m, 40m, and 20m "original" (Lo) cap values (no changes) are used in their new locations for Classic band setup, see subsequent post for Lo band setup toroid turns adjustments for max Pout.

A lot of work, very happy with the results.

73,

Robert, WA2T
Last edited by wa2t on 10 May 2022, 17:09, edited 5 times in total.
wa2t
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by wa2t »

Hi Group,

Here are the toroid turns changes I made to get max Pout on a Lo Band Setup unit and results:

80m - No change
60m - LX1 remove 2T (from 17T to 15T)
40m - LX1 remove 1T (from 15T to 14T)
30m - LX1 remove 1T (from 12T to 11T)
20m - LX1 remove 1T (from 10T to 9T)

Capacitor values are unchanged.

Results (@13.8Vdc & LP-100A used for Pout Measurement):

80m 5.7W
60m 5.4W
40m 5.4W
30m 6.0W
20m 5.4W

Some work, again very happy with the results.

73,

Robert, WA2T
JJ1ILX
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by JJ1ILX »

Hi Robert,

Thanks for your work!

Just wanted to confirm a couple of things on this before attempting to replicate.

You used the same 3x BS170 FETs as used in the Lo Band version?

For the capacitors and toroids for 80, 40, and 20 did you just stick with the same component values as the Lo Band version and just move them to the new position (I guess 80 stays in the same place, so no change necessary there).

Have you been able to calculate efficiency and harmonic suppression yet?

I'd love to be able to help out with this, I don't have the skill or supplies for trying to move the capacitors around, but might be worth putting in an order to JLCPCB for 5 RF boards using the capacitor calculations you have come up with and do some testing. The RF boards come out quite cheap in the end.

I am in Japan and 60M band is off limits for transmitting here, so the classic band setup would be ideal. There is a complicated process to get a kit rig approved for use here but if we can get one approved with the classic band setup then this kit would take off in Japan big time which would likely lead to further development and testing here as there are a lot of experimenters and a ton of domestic kits that don't make it out of the country due to language. This also means foreign kits rarely make it in as well and I'd like to see about bringing this one to Japan. I am working with my local ham shop owner trying to get all the documentation together to see if we can get it approved and then get the boards printed locally.
wa2t wrote: 10 May 2022, 14:21 Hi Group,

Here are my values and results for Classic Band Setup I have done on one of my units:

15m

CX0//CX1 68 pF//-
CX2//CX3 300pF//15pF
LX1 8T on T37-6
CX4//CX5 300pF//-
CX8//CX9 300pF//-
LX2 6T on T37-6
CX6/CX7 100pF

10m

CX0//CX1 39 pF//-
CX2//CX3 240pF//-
LX1 6T on T37-6
CX4//CX5 240pF//-
CX8//CX9 240pF//-
LX2 5T on T37-6
CX6/CX7 75pF

Note that my capacitor values are adhering fairly closely to (and are unchanged from) the BS170 theoretical values Manuel provided.

For the inductors, I used my Nano VNA to measure inductance and adjusted turns count to get as close as possible to the BS170 theoretical values Manuel provided. I then adjusted turns from there (which was always less turns) following the concepts demonstrated in Manuel's tuning video.

Results (@13.8Vdc & LP-100A used for Pout Measurement)

80m 5.6W
40m 5.8W
20m 5.7W
15m 5.2W
10m 4.6W

On 80m, 40m, and 20m "original" (Lo) cap values (no changes) are used in their new locations for Classic band setup, see subsequent post for Lo band setup toroid turns adjustments for max Pout.

A lot of work, very happy with the results.

73,

Robert, WA2T
dl6sez
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by dl6sez »

Hello Robert,

looks nice.
Can you please post efficiency values? Maybe measured inside (tr)uSDX and outside.
Have you checked the harmonics?

73 de Chris DL6SEZ and thanks for the work
Chris DL6SEZ, JN48XL near Ulm, Southern Germany
wa2t
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by wa2t »

JJ1ILX wrote: 13 May 2022, 01:29 Hi Robert,

Thanks for your work!

Just wanted to confirm a couple of things on this before attempting to replicate.

You used the same 3x BS170 FETs as used in the Lo Band version?

For the capacitors and toroids for 80, 40, and 20 did you just stick with the same component values as the Lo Band version and just move them to the new position (I guess 80 stays in the same place, so no change necessary there).

Have you been able to calculate efficiency and harmonic suppression yet?
Hi (your name here!),

Happy to share!

Yes, same PA FET's

Yes, 40/20 I just moved caps and toroids to new positions for the Classic band plan, no values changes needed other than the toroid turns changes I made for better Pout, see my subsequent post for that information.

Yes, I have made some efficiency measurements. I have not made harmonic suppression measurements (but easily could), I have adjusted/verified the tuning of the LX2 notch for Fc * 2 on each band.

There is some uncertainty about efficiency measurements, at least in my mind, as the changes I came up with to the components between the SWR bridge transformers and the ATMEGA (for the high power, 9.99 SWR readings issue) changes the (tr)uSDX measured efficiency by 10-11%, for the worse.

73,

Robert, WA2T
ik6den
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by ik6den »

hello, where can I buy 8-Band RF Board?
tks ik6den
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