(tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

DL2MAN
 

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(tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by DL2MAN »

There has been quite a demand for alternative Band setups and the use of higher bands.

We now offering alternate Band Setups for experimental use:

The assembly manual now describes possible low-pass filter values for a high-band configuration that supports 20m and higher, and a classic-band configuration that supports all bands from 80 to 10m without WARC bands.

The choosen configuration should be selected in menu item 8.7 "LPF Config" which can take the values LO, HI, and Classic:

Code: Select all

Band-Slot Assignment	                        K1	K2	K3	K4	K5
Lo (current Standard)	                        20m	30m	40m	60m	80m
Hi (Only Hi Bands)                              10m	12m	15m	17m	20m
Classic (Classical Bands w/o WARC)	        10m	15m	20m	40m	80m
Please check updated Bottom of the Assembly Page for Details and Values:
https://dl2man.de/2-trusdx-assembly/
You also need the latest R2.00h firmware here: https://dl2man.de/3b-trusdx-firmware/

73 Manuel; DL2MAN and Guido; PE1NNZ
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ve2rn
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by ve2rn »

Can i skip installing toroid for 60 and 30M on my kit and wait to get all the info and parts to install 15 and 10M? I think it means skip K1 and K2 .By the way you guys are doing great job and are very patients supporting users .
Sylvain Naud
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by DL2MAN »

Hi,
a Kit usually comes with pre-installed capacitors.
They are set-up for "Lo", as this is current standard.
If you just leave out 60 and 30m, (K2 and K4) then they are
a) on the wrong spot and
b) all the capacitors are on the wrong spot.

Either buy a new blanc RF Board
or scrap off every capacitor on there, and re-solder them in the right slot for "Classic" and wait for someone to come up with working 15 and 10m Values.
But there´s still a chance that Values might change because of changed position on the Board.
Trace Inductance and Trace Capacitance must not be underestimated in a Class E Filer.

73 Manuel; DL2MAN
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ve2rn
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by ve2rn »

Wow! your awnser cannot be mutch clear and instructive, i love this forum and learn a lot here. I will for sure follow your suggestions and try to find a rf board wthout caps and toroid for testing purpose and keep following evolution of the project.
Sylvain Naud
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DL2RMM
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by DL2RMM »

Manuel, thanks for the alternative band information.
In the revised assembly instructions you're refering to FDT86286 as possible Q5 replacement. I could not find such a FET....did you actually mean FDT86256 instead ?

73 de Jens, DL2RMM
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by dc8lz »

hi!
DL2RMM wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 21:19 Manuel, thanks for the alternative band information.
In the revised assembly instructions you're refering to FDT86286 as possible Q5 replacement. I could not find such a FET....did you actually mean FDT86256 instead ?

73 de Jens, DL2RMM
Typos... the FDT86256 is right. :)
73, Stephan
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by DL2MAN »

THX Info. Yes, Typos. Copyy and pasted further. Now corrected.

73 Manuel; DL2MAN
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by John »

Thank you for the band options, Manuel. I was just getting ready to build a new through-hole version of the RF board as I have little interest in the WARC bands but am quite interested in adding a 10 meter band for an HT setup. I have both the NanoVNA and an HP spectrum analyzer available to tune up the filters, and also silver mica and ceramic trimmer caps to do the build with. I assume the RF output power will drop off, but the higher frequency band makes a very small antenna reasonably efficient. I've wanted a 10 meter SSB HT for 40 years and the (tr)uSDX has shown that technology has reached the point where it's reasonable for me to put one together. I may even do some mods and experiments on 6 meters if 10 meters works out fairly well. Again, thank you for your design and all your effort.
John - ad0wo
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by 6k2kus »

Hi Manuel and Guido,

Really awated news! Thank you for your hard work.
Just one thing: most of us build (tr)uSDX using a half-made kit,
in which SMD capacitors are already soldered.
So the most practical approach may be using the already built ones and just changing the minimal number of bands:
In my case, I have modified the 60m part K4 (which Asian countries do not use)
to 15m (which is more popular because of my country's license restriction).
So it would be nice if we can change the band one by one.
It would be grateful if you consider this.
I would love to test this and report it.
Thank you again.
Choi, 6K2KUS
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by w8ijn »

After all the experimentation is done & we have the values for the parts for the "classic" and "high" LPF/RF board, it would be totally sweet if the board makers could offer the option of one or all three alternatives. Then those of us building (or buying the built versions) could have the options availabe for purchase.

As is the (tr)uSDX is one hell of a nice little QRP box. I love mine & have had a bunch of fun QSOs on it. Even added a few parks to my POTA scores.

That said, I'd also like to have the higher band or classic board option for the days when the bands above 20m come back to life . . .

Nils / W8IJN
Nils / W8IJN
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by Ohwenzelph »

For the (tr)uSDX with 3 BS170's, On schematic and in Bom C10 is 68 pF and is C11 none, but in the “alternative band setups” it looks to me like they should add up to 128pF. Maybe I am misreading but Was there supposed to be another 68pF @C11? Best efficiency I could get on 20 was 75%, maybe that's ok but wondered why 20 was different. And I plan to build a hi band one so wondered if I should use 68pf or 128 of in that part of the circuit for 20.
Thanks
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by DL2MAN »

Ohwenzelph wrote: 30 Mar 2022, 01:56 For the (tr)uSDX with 3 BS170's, On schematic and in Bom C10 is 68 pF and is C11 none, but in the “alternative band setups” it looks to me like they should add up to 128pF.
The Schmematic contains tried, trued and tested values (that I found based on the theoretical values by experimenting, repeating and testing) while the "alternative band setups" are just theoretical values. Whenever in doubt: Schematic contains the working stuff.

Someone still needs to find the "practical" values for the higher Bands. So far noone has made anything out of this it seems and we won´t do it.... So here´s your chance to contribute to (tr)uSDX.

73 Manuel, DL2MAN
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ve2rn
 

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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by ve2rn »

DL2MAN wrote: 30 Mar 2022, 11:26
Ohwenzelph wrote: 30 Mar 2022, 01:56 For the (tr)uSDX with 3 BS170's, On schematic and in Bom C10 is 68 pF and is C11 none, but in the “alternative band setups” it looks to me like they should add up to 128pF.
The Schmematic contains tried, trued and tested values (that I found based on the theoretical values by experimenting, repeating and testing) while the "alternative band setups" are just theoretical values. Whenever in doubt: Schematic contains the working stuff.

Someone still needs to find the "practical" values for the higher Bands. So far noone has made anything out of this it seems and we won´t do it.... So here´s your chance to contribute to (tr)uSDX.

73 Manuel, DL2MAN
I did replace the 30M for 15M on L21 L22 and then shifted to Classic selection

I replace L21 with a T37-6 9T and L22 with T37-6 6T
I took off 1 condenser on C20-C22-C24-C28
Remove C27 and put the one i removed on C20 to replace( i do not have a good inventory yet but it is coming)
Results were fine except for the second harmonic is close to 46MHz try to tweak L22 adding and removing a turn cannot get closer so keep it 6T, i should replace some condenser values but i have to learn the effect of each one. I am only on a learning process with electronic and began with this forum and all the info i got here and on internet.
Here are the result i got first on the board from *Rxxxx*. I replace the T37-43 with some from Digikey (plastic coated) I have better % eff 60% with the ones that came with the kit
On the Lo LPF
12V - W - % - PA Bias max
80M 5.18 46.2 172
60M 2.41 46.5 172
40M 3.0 47.6 172
30M 2.57 43.5 172
20M 3.52 46 172

On the Classic LPF
15M 3.20 46 172
80M 5.1 46 172

My work is more instinctive than technical so any help or reference will be accepted
All i did here i found info on this forum (like how measure LPF with nanovna) i have one
for two week now gift of a friend. Will keep trying to tune it.
Also i do that on my own, the risk is large that i scrapt it but i like trying things, so think
about it before trying that.
Last edited by ve2rn on 30 Mar 2022, 21:50, edited 1 time in total.
Sylvain Naud
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by AC9YY »

Nice job getting 15 meters working. I wonder if you could make a QSO on 15 and see how it works. Too bad your efficiency is low due to the kit your are using. If I had a spare RF board I would love to try getting 10 meters working properly.
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by ve2rn »

AC9YY wrote: 30 Mar 2022, 19:53 Nice job getting 15 meters working. I wonder if you could make a QSO on 15 and see how it works. Too bad your efficiency is low due to the kit your are using. If I had a spare RF board I would love to try getting 10 meters working properly.
I did make a QSO on 15M With Florida 2365 Km receive 55 report the band was closing, it is only
a matter of timing for me to retry.
Sylvain Naud
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by AC9YY »

ve2rn wrote: 30 Mar 2022, 19:58
AC9YY wrote: 30 Mar 2022, 19:53 Nice job getting 15 meters working. I wonder if you could make a QSO on 15 and see how it works. Too bad your efficiency is low due to the kit your are using. If I had a spare RF board I would love to try getting 10 meters working properly.
I did make a QSO on 15M With Florida 2365 Km receive 55 report the band was closing, it is only
a matter of timing for me to retry.
Thanks, that is great to hear! I have another kit I promised to my cousin, but if he does not take it I could experiment with the hi bands.
Last edited by AC9YY on 31 Mar 2022, 13:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by Ohwenzelph »

Is a single FDT86256(assuming you can get one) preferable to 3 BS170’s?
How do they differ?
Thanks
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by AC9YY »

Ohwenzelph wrote: 31 Mar 2022, 12:16 Is a single FDT86256(assuming you can get one) preferable to 3 BS170’s?
How do they differ?
Thanks
I think I read somewhere that a single FDT86256 is more likely to be sensitive to high SWR compared to 3 BS170’s.
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by Ohwenzelph »

Easier to replace if you have one, but harder than BS 170's if you don't. Other than needing different filter components (which I do not,yet, understand) is there a performance difference or some other difference?
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by AC9YY »

Anyone know where I could get an assortment of NPO 100v 0805 capacitors? I would like to see if I could get the hi bands working reasonably. I ordered a kit with no case, but will be a while until I get it from China from an approved vendor. I also ordered some T 37-6 toroids if needed.
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by Ohwenzelph »

I would shop mouser and digikey but buying a variety of individual values will get expensive quick. Don't know where to buy an assortment but that is probably the right approach.
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by Ohwenzelph »

Hi Bands Setup with Theoretical results:
With 3 BS 170's, using all the listed "theoretical" values, with genuine 37-6 toroids, windings per Diz's calculator for the uH values stated, npo 100 volt or greater caps from mouser(Johanson, AVX, Murata)
Initial results, with no tweaking:
9 volts
20 0.93w 58%
17 0.62w 36%
15 0.72w 31%
12 0.56w 23%
10 0.64w 21%

12 volts
20 1.76w 63%
17 1.14w 39%
15 1.30w 31%
12 1.00w 24%
10 1.05w 20%

So, now the work begins.
Last edited by Ohwenzelph on 03 Apr 2022, 02:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by ve2rn »

Nice job !
Here is what i used for 15M on *Rxxxx* rf board on 15M all caps from that same board
C20/21 100P
C22/23 330p
C24/25 330p
C26/C27 100P
C28/C29 330P
L21 T37-6 9T 0.4mm
L22 T37-6 6T 0.4mm
Results with 12V : 3.2W 46% the second harmonic is at 46mhz
Maby this can help you
Sylvain Naud
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by Ohwenzelph »

Thanks, I had just figured that out from your earlier note. Took me a little while.
Yep, basically half the capacitance that works on 30 for 15. The inductances you used work out near exactly to half what worked best for me on 30 as well. It makes good sense. I did everything as close as I could to what's listed in the theoretical values for everything, realizing it would not be optimal but as a start to see how far off it would be. I have a couple of old analoge oscillascopes (gifts) that may help but I need to do some reading. Adding and removing stuff could be hard on the board, so I want to try and figure out which direction and which values to alter.
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Re: (tr)uSDX - Alternative Band Setups available

Post by DL2MAN »

To give you a starting point what to change:

I got 80m and 10m working (classical Bands), but did not continue with 40/20/15 in between.
THe following Values were tested with 1x86256 and gave 5W and over 80% Efficiency:

Code: Select all

		K5 - 80m
CX0//CX1	1000pF//-
CX2//CX3	1000pF//1800pF
LX1		18T @ T37-2
CX4//CX5	2200pF//-
CX8//CX9	2200pF//-
LX2		13T @ T37-2
CX6//CX7	270pF//470pF

Code: Select all

		K1 – 10m
CX0//CX1	68pF//56pF
CX2//CX3	360pF//-
LX1		5T @ T37-2
CX4//CX5	180pF//100pF
CX8//CX9	180pF//100pF
LX2		4T @ T37-2
CX6//CX7	82pF//10pF
The inductances needed to be way lower compared to what the Toroid calculator has spit out as amount of windings in order to get there.
Just, that you get an idea of the difference between theory and practice. It costed me almost 2 Days of measuring and trial and error to get there, which is why I stopped at this point and thought: let someone else do it.

73 Manuel; DL2MAN
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