CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

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cdbolton
 

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Joined: 27 Nov 2022, 09:31

CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

Post by cdbolton »

I've been playing around with FLDigi on Windows 10 and have achieved some success in operating CW via CAT control with just the USB connection. However, as soon as I connect the 12V supply, the CAT control becomes unstable and sends the trusdx into random switching sequences? The symptoms are the same as many users have reported in trying to to CAT control to work, so I'm wondering if the cause may be something to do with change of signal levels on the comms port when "external" power is connected. Note: I'm using a 12V battery pack which provides clean DC so I don't think noise on the power supply is an issue. Finally, I've also tried using the latest alpha release of FLRig which has been updated to include CAT control specific to the trusdx, but the problem still exists.
gatorjj
 

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Joined: 11 Oct 2022, 00:06

Re: CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

Post by gatorjj »

I'm curious if it is stable for a long period of time on the USB, or just better?

I had similar problems with CAT until I found out that Semi-QSK being on caused some problem with CAT. With it off my CAT control has been completely stable on 2 (tr)usdx units, USB or 12v. Once I solved this all the software (FLRIG, FLDIGI, WSJT-X, VarAC, etc.) just started working fine.

Of course it could always be something else or a one-off problem with the specific radio, but I hope you solve it and can get on the digital modes :D

J.J. KF4VE
cdbolton
 

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Joined: 27 Nov 2022, 09:31

Re: CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

Post by cdbolton »

gatorjj wrote: โ†‘07 Mar 2023, 00:09 I'm curious if it is stable for a long period of time on the USB, or just better?
To confirm that the CAT connection is stable on USB power. I should also add when used with WSJTX the connection is also stable WITH the 12V supply connected, which is really puzzling๐Ÿค”
I have tried updating the firmware on the trusdx today but alas the USB connection to AVRDudess is also causing problems, not sure if this is related at all? The radio is working well otherwise.
AC8L
 

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Joined: 11 Mar 2023, 22:26

Re: CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

Post by AC8L »

When USB is connected to the machine (I tried Mac OS X, native windows PC and Windows VM on Mac) - even without configuring CAT on the software (tr)USDX randomly resets, switches. I ended up using VOX for the PTT. And, when usb is connected - I get intermittent garbage on audio out. Semi-QSK is off.
LILO
 

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Joined: 12 Aug 2022, 09:15

Re: CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

Post by LILO »

AC8L wrote: โ†‘13 Mar 2023, 02:16 When USB is connected to the machine (I tried Mac OS X, native windows PC and Windows VM on Mac) - even without configuring CAT on the software (tr)USDX randomly resets, switches. I ended up using VOX for the PTT. And, when usb is connected - I get intermittent garbage on audio out. Semi-QSK is off.
RF in the shack?
Check your antenna. Test with dummy load.
cdbolton
 

Posts: 6
Joined: 27 Nov 2022, 09:31

Re: CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

Post by cdbolton »

Interestingly I've also found that attempts to reload the firmware with external power applied also failed. So, there is definitely something strange happening to the USB connection when used with external power and it isn't stray RF. Otherwise the radio works perfectly in "standalone" operation??
AC8L
 

Posts: 5
Joined: 11 Mar 2023, 22:26

Re: CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

Post by AC8L »

LILO wrote: โ†‘14 Mar 2023, 08:39
AC8L wrote: โ†‘13 Mar 2023, 02:16 When USB is connected to the machine (I tried Mac OS X, native windows PC and Windows VM on Mac) - even without configuring CAT on the software (tr)USDX randomly resets, switches. I ended up using VOX for the PTT. And, when usb is connected - I get intermittent garbage on audio out. Semi-QSK is off.
RF in the shack?
Check your antenna. Test with dummy load.
I am testing with dummy load. I narrowed problem down to mac/CH430 drivers. When I connected the rig to a windows machine next to the Mac with good cable I was finally able to configure the CAT. But with Mac no luck so far. When I try to manually start the rigctld - it sends some commands but times out on others.
KJ7DGE
 

Posts: 1
Joined: 24 Mar 2023, 02:22

Re: CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

Post by KJ7DGE »

For me, WSJT-X and JS8Call chug away happily until I plug in a LiFePO4 (Bioenno) battery. It definitely seems like communication over the USB cable seems to be interrupted the moment I plug in a 12V source. If I'm reading the error message correctly, all data from the CAT interface just stops abruptly -- even with semi-QSK disabled. The following snippet is the error I receive in both Linux and Windows from WSJT-X (I've only tried the 40 and 20 meter bands so far):

Code: Select all

Hamlib error: rig_flush: called for serial device
read_string_generic called, rxmax=4095 direct=1, expected_len=1
write_block(): TX 3 bytes, method=2
0000    46 41 3b                                            FA;    
read_string_generic called, rxmax=128 direct=1, expected_len=1
read_string_generic(): Timed out 0.500 seconds after 0 chars, direct=1
kenwood_transaction: read_string(expected=128, len=0)=''
kenwood_transaction: read_string retval < 0, retval = -5, retry_read=0, rs->rigport.retry=0
kenwood.c(624):kenwood_transaction returning2(-5) Communication timed out 

kenwood_open: no response from rig 
  2:kenwood.c(935):kenwood_open returning(-5) Communication timed out 

  2:rig.c(7478):async_data_handler_stop entered
  2:rig.c(7508):async_data_handler_stop returning(0) 
ser_close: restoring options
 1:rig.c(1273):rig_open returning(-5) Communication timed out 

Communication timed out 
Communication timed out 
 while opening connection to rig 

Timestamp: 2023-03-23T20:10:00.527Z
With digital modes, 500 mW is plenty for me; my signal gets out just fine with reception of WSPR 13,000km and FT8 contacts about 9,000km away. However, it would always be nice to have the option to play with the full 5W.

My truSDX was built by DIYNewTech.com, so I'm assuming it was done correctly.
cdbolton
 

Posts: 6
Joined: 27 Nov 2022, 09:31

Re: CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

Post by cdbolton »

I've done some more investigation of this problem and have found that it occurs whenever the USB_5V is increased to between 5v and 5.4v irrespective of external power being applied or not. Powered via USB from my laptop, USB_5V measures 4.94v and the CAT connection remains completely stable. If I connect via USB via a good quality USB hub, USB_5v is increased to 5.13v and the CAT connection crashes after a few minutes, which is also the same symptom if I connect directly to the laptop and apply external power to the trusdx. I'm looking to replace the CH340 but would welcome any other suggestions.
dl6sez
 

Posts: 399
Joined: 30 Dec 2021, 22:54

Re: CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

Post by dl6sez »

Hello OM,

i don't believe it will change with new CH340G because it sounds like you are having Potential differences problem. This could only be manged by an USB Isolater.
If it works once and doesn't work with an extra powered USB hub and also not with standard USB and 12V than you have a Potential differences problem for sure :) If you change the CH340G it will last the same....
Buy a 15 Euro USB Isolator :)

73 de Chris
Chris DL6SEZ, JN48XL near Ulm, Southern Germany
cdbolton
 

Posts: 6
Joined: 27 Nov 2022, 09:31

Re: CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

Post by cdbolton »

dl6sez wrote: โ†‘10 Apr 2023, 13:25 i don't believe it will change with new CH340G because it sounds like you are having Potential differences problem. This could only be manged by an USB Isolater...."
Thanks for the suggestion๐Ÿ‘ I can understand that a USB isolator might cure the symptoms but I'm experiencing the same problem with the trusdx connected to 3 different laptops, which is why I think the root cause is somewhere within the trusdx. I've ordered a USB isolator anyway as it seems like a handy device to have on hand and I'm interested to see what happens.
dl6sez
 

Posts: 399
Joined: 30 Dec 2021, 22:54

Re: CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

Post by dl6sez »

Hello OM,

how should your CH340G react different with 0.14V more? The 5V from USB go directly to the 5V line via a schotky diode, so the whole other circuit can't stand the higher voltage is more logically the clue here...
But this also is not really more logical. There must be differences in the common potential and therefore current flows from one common to another and therefore shifts one higher or lower until the Vss voltage e.g. 5V get's to low (too high would kill Atmega328, so this has not yet happened...). This could also lead to a latch up effect in CMOS e.g. the Atmega328 resets or CH340G and i think that's what you see.

73 de Chris
Chris DL6SEZ, JN48XL near Ulm, Southern Germany
cdbolton
 

Posts: 6
Joined: 27 Nov 2022, 09:31

Re: CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

Post by cdbolton »

So I've now tested the trusdx with a USB isolator but the problem remains exactly the same. I think I understand that in theory this solution should work, but I suspect that these typical USB isolators based on the ADUM3160 chip are not providing true isolation of the USB 5V supply. I'm pretty certain that the cause of the problem must be within the trusdx and not the pc as I've tested it with multiple laptops.
cdbolton wrote: โ†‘11 Apr 2023, 20:22
dl6sez wrote: โ†‘10 Apr 2023, 13:25 i don't believe it will change with new CH340G because it sounds like you are having Potential differences problem. This could only be manged by an USB Isolater...."
Thanks for the suggestion๐Ÿ‘ I can understand that a USB isolator might cure the symptoms but I'm experiencing the same problem with the trusdx connected to 3 different laptops, which is why I think the root cause is somewhere within the trusdx. I've ordered a USB isolator anyway as it seems like a handy device to have on hand and I'm interested to see what happens.
dl6sez
 

Posts: 399
Joined: 30 Dec 2021, 22:54

Re: CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

Post by dl6sez »

Hello OM,

if i look at the circuit i can see two points which could be the cause of the strange behaviour.
Our voltage 3.3V is already not really 3.3V because we get it from reducing 5V by 2x 1N4148 in series (and the low current consumption of Si5351 doesn't reduce it to 3.3V). It is even higher with high extern USB supply voltage!
So we are there at the high side of the supply voltage, more than 3.3V our SI5351 has to stand as Vdd.
Also the voltage you normally have at the USB port is reduced by SS14 schottky diode to about 4.8V / 4.7V maybe and also gets to the output of the 78L05. The IC regulates, supplied with 12V from outside, on the same line 5V. If the voltage of USB - Vschottky is lower than 5V we have no problem for the 78L05. But if your external USB power supplied voltage is higher than 5V + Vschottky the 78L05 can get into trouble.

You recognized that it is correlated with the value of USB supply voltage.
So my suggestion would be to replace the two 1N4148 diodes with a 3.3V regulator.
you could also add a schottky at the regulator output, e.g. in series after the 78L05, to get it decoupled from the higher USB voltage induced current flow back into it.

These both things could lead to a problem, 78L05 could start to oscillate partly and Si5351 could stop with the to high Vdd to work and therefore shuts down the I2C Bus.
My 2 Cents ;)

73 de Chris
Chris DL6SEZ, JN48XL near Ulm, Southern Germany
Carl VK2XSM
 

Posts: 1
Joined: 04 Jan 2022, 19:52
Location: Belrose NSW Australia

Re: CAT Control Issues but only with 12V supply?

Post by Carl VK2XSM »

I used 5 Volts only for WSPR and FT8 on my classical (tr)uSDX. Instead of CAT, I used VOX. FT8 was received in Japan (nearly 8000km) and WSPR was received by EA8/DF4UE (18490km), both on 15 metres. The antenna is a (compromised) 16.2m random wire hidden on a wooden balcony with a 9:1 unun transformer.

I'm happy with these results - given the fact that the transmitted power was only 0.5W. It is a great radio!
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